Subj:	TRAVELLER digest 289
Date:	95-05-18 19:29:55 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

From:	traveller@mpgn.com
Sender:	traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)
			    TRAVELLER Digest 289

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Effects of high gravity.
	by adou01@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Andrew Richard  Doull)
  2) re Military Generation / Path of Tears
	by "/R=PLB/R=A1/U=HOEY DAVID/O=CSU/FFN=David Hoey/"@mr.ncom.nt.gov.au
  3) TL 16 400-Mj Laser Turret
	by pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
  4) Re: Battledress & Fuel Cells
	by Johan Herber <johhe@ida.liu.se>
  5) Re: TRAVELLER digest 288
	by aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
  6) Moving to Ames, Iowa
	by Mark Clark <markc@brahms.udel.edu>
  7) Re: Traveller info
	by Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 14:18:06 +1200
From: adou01@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Andrew Richard  Doull)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Effects of high gravity.
Message-ID: <199505180218.OAA22358@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>

Alvin Plummer recently suggested a way to implement the effects of high
gravity
on characters, which GDW doesn't realy cover.  I have also recently
atteempted to deal with this issue, which breaks down into two areas:
The physical effects of high gravity.  This increases the weight of objects
nad\and the speed at which they fall.
The physiological effects of high gravity.  This results from the increase in
weight of the character's own body.  A 80 kilogram person in a 1.2 G field
hasanextra 20 kilograms (Actually 200 N) of weight for their body to deal
with.
This does not just affect actual strength, but reaction time, health and
possibly intelligence.
GURPS Space has one way of dealing with this, by treating the extra weight by
additional encumberance.  Another way is to apply excess Gs as fatigue.  I
recommend 1 automatic level of fatigue for every 0.2 Gs over 1 G.  The
fatigue
rules already deal with most of the secondary effects of this.  A third way
is to divide STR, CON, AGL, and INT by the gravity in Gs in high gravity
areas.
Load, throw range and unarmed combat damage should be divided by local
gravity
squared, and includes the afore-mentioned effects on actual object weights.
This
method requires more calculations, but allows character sheets to be
permanently
adjusted and then adjusted back later.
Personal movement should be adjusted as vehicle movement already is, using
the
10/20/30 walk/trot/run rates as the safe movement speeds for characters.  One
aspect of vehicle movement not covered in the basic Traveller: The New Era
rules
is the reduction in speeds because of increased vehicle weights.  Divide
ground
and ACV vehicle top (triple overdrive or run) speed by the local gravity in
Gs
in high gravity.
 
A.D.Venturer (aka Andrew Doull)
 
PS: Sorry about the mistakes, I'm in a hurry.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 02:46:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "/R=PLB/R=A1/U=HOEY DAVID/O=CSU/FFN=David Hoey/"@mr.ncom.nt.gov.au
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: re Military Generation / Path of Tears
Message-ID: <01HQNDHJHGUA001Y67@mr.ncom.nt.gov.au>

Regarding the posting on military generation and the figures of 
the AIF in the 1st and 2nd world wars.  Australia created the 1st 
AIF to serve overseas during WWI.  It had 5 divisions (1st, 2nd, 
3rd, 4th, 5th).  When WWII started Australia raised the 2nd AIF 
which had 4 divisions (6th, 7th, 8th, 9th).  I don't know the 
number or size of units serving in Australia during the wars.  It 
has harder to equip the 2nd AIF than the first due to a lack of 
equipment.  The 8th Division was lost when Singapore fell and 
was never replaced.

A trend during the WWII was to reduce the size of units as the 
firepower of equipment increased.  This resulted in smaller 
divisions late in the war with the same firepower as divisions at 
the start.  One method could be to create the same number of units 
from path of tears but make the number of people in the units 
smaller.

The mass combat system in world tamers produces a combat factor 
for each unit depending upon size and tech level.  If combat 
factors where used a world could produce so many combat factors 
per population which would result in smaller units at higher tech 
levels.

David Hoey
NCOM
NT Government
Australia
outpost to the NT Police.

e-mail: "hoey david%a1%plb"@mr.ncom.nt.gov.au
(grotty address, but this is the only way I can connect to 
internet mail)



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 21:50:14 -1600
From: pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TL 16 400-Mj Laser Turret
Message-ID: <9505181350.AA11940@phq1002.wapol.gov.au>

400-Mj laser turret     5.6MW  MCr1.00  65t 
                        10:1/16-50 20:1/16-50 40:1/16-50 80:1/16-50

This turret fits into a standard 3T socket mount.  Gunner's workstation and
beam pointer included in volume.
Michael Bailey (pd82495@wapol.gov.au)

"...you mad-dog, shaven head, bottle boy freaks..."
                                      Marillion, "Berlin"



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 17:56:45 +0200
From: Johan Herber <johhe@ida.liu.se>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Battledress & Fuel Cells
Message-ID: <9505181556.AA00748@sen4.ida>



>While the discussion is on battledress, I would like to point out my
battledress
>designs kick butt over anything that GDW has published.  Why?  I install
fuel
>cells rather than batteries, which have between 1/3 and 1/10 the listed mass
of
>the batteries used in the battledress designs in FFS.  The extra space
savings
>I use to install stealth or EMM, extra weapons, cybernetics (Yes, from
chapter
>12), and other equipment, inluding tool kits.  This gives a much wider
variety
>of design possibilities and lets me beef up the armour by a factor of 3 or
4.
>Oh, and because fuel cells generate heaps of excess power because of their
>minimum volume, they are ideal for installing DEI lasers, gauss weapons, and
in
>this case meson guns. (Which I had not previously thought of).
 
The thing I believe is missing hear is signature modifiers for
different sizes and types of powerplants. It should be hard enough to
hide in battledress without lighting up every enemy sensor suite in
the area due to excess heat. Anyone got any rules for this? This could
be useful for vehicles and spacecraft also. Combine this with rules
for thruster exhaust heat and many designs become prime targets...

/Johan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 95 20:14 BST-1
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 288
Message-ID: <memo.392617@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <199505172303.TAA15368@Ambassador.MPGN.COM>


  > From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca> To:
  > Subject: Gravity Fatigue.. 
  >  
  > Notes on how Gravity weakens characters, depending on homeworld 
  > (So choose your birthworld wisely...) 
  >  
  > > From         Size of World Being Visited... 
  > World 
  > Size   G's     0  1  2  3  4   5  6  7  8  9  A 
  > 0      0       -  2  3  4  5  6  8  9  10 11 13 

I thought it was usually assumed that people living in Belts used
artificial gravity?

  > From: adou01@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Andrew Richard  Doull) To:
  > Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 287 
  >  
  > [Brendon O'Donovan submitted this interesting design.] 
  > >  
  > > 'David' class Heavy Battle Dress 

By a staggering coincidence, David is the name of a PC in my campaign who
goes around in souped-up BD...

  > While the discussion is on battledress, I would like to point out my
  > battledress designs kick butt over anything that GDW has published.
  >  Why?  I install fuel cells rather than batteries, which have between

Could you post your versions of the standard suits? (Yes, I admit it, I'm
too lazy to do them myself!)

  > From: "C. Harald Koch" <harald@enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca> To:
  > Subject: Re: Gravity Fatigue.. 
  >  
  > > Notes on how Gravity weakens characters, depending on homeworld 
  >  
  > 2300AD has a different scheme; strength is reduced in higher-G
  > environments, but dexterity is reduced in *lower* G environments.

I think it should be lowered in *both* - just try strapping weights to your
arm and then signing your name!

I suppose this is as good a place as any to ask this:

If someone moved to a higher-G world, or turned up the gravity on their
ship, would this eventually increase their STR?

  > From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen) To:
  > Subject: Solomani Rim? 
  >  
  > Does anyone have official or semi-official copies of Solomani Rim 
  > statistics for 1200+? 

Generalising this, is there an ftp site where I can find *complete* .sec
files, ideally for both 1120 and 1200, of lots of different sectors?

  > From: John Bindas <jbindas@u.washington.edu> 
  > Subject: Re: Military Generation / Path of Tears 
  >  
  > > So, as an army/navy/air force becomes more advanced, it tends to
  > > get smaller (after all, there's only so many defense credits to
  > > go around).  

  > > Anyway, my idea is to take the final manpower figures produced by
  > > the Path of Tears system, and multiply them by a Tech Level modifier
  > >  
  > I like your idea, but I think the modifiers shouldn't be so drastic.
  > Perhapse starting with 1 or 1.5  and finishing with .5 

Agreed.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 15:22:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Clark <markc@brahms.udel.edu>
To: falken-l@duke.poly.edu
Subject: Moving to Ames, Iowa
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950518151148.22110E-100000@brahms.udel.edu>

I just accepted a one-year teaching position at Iowa State University, 
and I will be there from mid-August 1995 to early May 1996 (or longer if 
they decide to hire me for a tenure track position).  I'm looking for a 
group or groups to game with, and would like to hear from anyone in that 
area, or from anyone who has friends in the area I might get together with.

As you can tell from the mailing lists I'm posting this to, I enjoy 
playing Space 1889, Castle Falkenstein, and Traveller (Classic, Mega, or 
New Era).  I also like Cyberpunk 2020, Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu, and 
even AD&D.  About the only type of game I'm not really fond of is one 
that is really rules or math heavy - I prefer roleplaying to roll-playing   

Anyway, if you're interested, drop me a line, and I'll be happy to tell 
you more about myself.

Mark Clark
markc@brahms.udel.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 May 95 18:20:17 -0400
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
To: bednarz@gate.maloka.waw.pl
Cc: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Traveller info
Message-ID: <9505182220.AA08670@qrc.com>

Sorry this has taken so long to anwer ...

bednarz@gate.maloka.waw.pl (Michal Bednarz) asked:
> qq>The Traveller story actually begins in 1977, with a game called
Traveller
> Is this also called 2300 AD?

No.  Traveller:2300, which was later re-named 2300AD, is another,
completely different game.  Originally released as Traveller:2300, and
renamed to 2300AD in the second printing, this game has no relation to
the Traveller product line - it uses its own rules sustem (although there
is some similarity to the Twilight:2000 system) and the official game
universe is set in the Twilight:2000 history, 300 years after events
described in Twilight:2000.

The game is interesting in its own right, and has a number of ideas that
are worth exploring - one of the most interesting is the "stutterwarp" FTL
drive (a nice new name for an old FTL drive concept), and the three
dimensional starmap and interstellar navigation.

> qq>have been scrapped in favor of the Twilight: 2000 system; and the
official
> qq>game universe is set after a complete collapse of interstellar society,
> 
> You said "official."  Would it be fairly simple to play TNE in a created
> universe?

Compared to what?

Certainly, using the pre-made "official" universe is easier: the background
data is already created for you, and you can pick up suppliments and
adventure materials and use them directly, without modification.

However, Traveller: The New Era has good support for "created" (or perhaps I
should say, "create-your-own") universes.  The technology rules in the Fire,
Fusion, and Steel suppliment offer several alternatives, so that variant
universes are relatively easy to define.  The world-generation rules in the
main rulebook are easily adaptable to whatever kind of starmap you wish to
create, as well.

On the other hand, be prepared to spend more time on your game that a
referee using the "official" universe would: for example, if the players
decide to visit a local government offical, you'll need to decide who that
might be, and create any supplimental material you will need to manage the
encounter.

Particularly when running a "create-your-own" campaign, it's vital to keep
notes.  It's not hard to use the time between sessions to prepare materials,
but consistency is also important.  As you create material, file it in your
notes, and soon you will have a background of impressive detail.

You will find that you can also draft your players into assisting in the
creation of background detail.  For example, one of your players is playing
an ex-Navy character, and for some reason the players find themselves aboard
a Navy ship.  It makes sense to detail the creation of the Naval ship to the
player of the ex-Navy character.  Not only does it ease the burden on the
referee, but it's realistic that the Navy character knows more about the
layout and capabilities of a Naval vessel than any of the other players.

> qq>In my opinion, the "tone" of the game has altered as well; there is a
heavy

> Would you consider this to be good or bad (what style of gaming do you
prefer)? 

Personally, I preferred the original.  Then again, I read Heinlien, Asimov
Clark, Niven, Dickson, Piper, and all the rest - so the game I want to play
mirrors the books I like to read.

> I'm not that sure what you mean be "Space Fantasy" --->  heroic quests,
fighting
> the "Dark side of the Force," killing off the baddies?   :)

A game that's combat oriented - involving heroes and a clearly defined
Good and Bad sides to a conflict.  Yes, _Star Wars_ is a good example of the
genre.

Don't get me wrong - not only do I like Star Wars, I enjoy the Space Fantasy
genre - but it doesn't require a game as large and complex as Traveller to
play it.  Games like West End's Star Wars RPG is more suited to this kind
of play, because the rules are simpler (both to learn and to use) which
keeps the action moving along, and the design emphasizes features of the
genre - for example, by making it easier for player-characters to survive.

If you want to play Star-Trek-like or Star-Wars-like games, Traveller: The
New Era isn't the right tool for the job.

> I understand the combat isn't too realistic (or everyone would die off
really
> fast)?

"Realism" is very subjective, particularly when you're talking about a
science-fiction game.  In the opinion of the game's designers, T:TNE has a
realistic combat system, and many of the published scenarios involving
giving the player-characters a substantial technological advantage over
their opponents in order to help assure player-character survival.

In the opinion of other people who have played the game, T:TNE's combat
system is not realistic at all.  This is one reason why people tend to
either like or dislike the combat system - either you agree with the
designers' opinions, or you disagree with them, but there is little middle
ground.

In my case, players of mine who are in a position to be familiar with the
way that modern military weaponry works have expressed their dissatisfaction
with the T:TNE combat system.  I respect their opinions, and don't agree
with some of the design choices made by the game's designers.

> qq>The suppliment Fire, Fusion, and Steel contains
> qq>another 160 pages of starship, vehicle, and equipment rules which do not
> qq>appear in the main rulebook.

> Is the mentioned supplement worth the time and money?  Is it an extension
of
> rules from the basic rulebook?

For me, yes.  FF&S concerns itself with the construction of all sorts of
weaponry and vehicles.  It will take a good bit of time to learn these
rules, and additional time to construct enough gadgetry for a
"create-your-own" campaign with a rich variety of weapons, vehicles, and
equipment.

The rules aren't so much an extension, but additional rules for topics not
covered in the main rules - construction of starships, space and air
vehicles, all types of weapons, and so on.  When finished, these designs
will produce numbers that can be used in the game rules, just like the
equipment that is provided with the game.

To me, the rules in FF&S are very important - designing materials for a
campaign is a large part of the fun of the game.

> qq>you will also need Brilliant Lances, since the space
> qq>combat rules in the T:TNE rulebook have a number of flaws that severly
> qq>impact playability.
> 
> What sort of flaws?  I don't think I'll concentrate on space combat ALL
that
> much (Brilliant Lances are $30 anyway, am I right?  Not THAT much, but...
:)).

The space combat rules that appear in the T:TNE rulebook appear to be an
early revision of those that were published in Brilliant Lances.  They also
don't appear to have been playtested much (if at all).  Specific problems
include:

One-dimensional movement.  Rules for using maps and two-dimensional (yes, I
mean _two_) aren't provided, and support for two-dimensional maneuvering is
very limited.  Basically, all you have to work with is a range and a closing
velocity.

Botched Combat.  The rules as written call for ten attempts to hit the
target (and therefore at _least_ ten die rolls) per weapon per turn.  Combat
turns with what I considered a reasonable number of ships (an 800-ton
Broadsword-class mercenary transport against two 400-ton System Defense
Boats) involved nearly two hundred die rolls (120 "to-hit" rolls, plus
additional damage rolls for those which did hit).  This is too many die
rolls and too much time to be reasonable (and this is how I can tell
that the rules as written were not playtested extensively, if at all).

Limited Ship Selection.  There are a number of ships provided in the T:TNE
rules, however, there are no ship-construction rules, and the ships provided
are rather limited.  This is a Traveller tradition - typically only a few
starship designs were provided with earlier editions of the game - but T:TNE
is the first edition of the game (not counting _Starter Traveller_) which
lacks ship construction and customization rules in the basic rulebook(s).

Brilliant Lances fixes all these problems - it provides the starship
creation rules (an early draft of them; a few minor problems were corrected
when the same rules appeared in Fire, Fusion and Steel), good and playable
maneuvering and combat rules, and additional pre-designed starships.  It
is a good tactical-level, small-ship, space combat game in it's own right.

In my humble opinion, the game rules that were included with Brilliant
Lances, including the starship construction rules, _should_ have been
included in the T:TNE rulebook - in essence, equivalent rules were included
with the basic game in all previous editions of Traveller.  The additional
starships, maps, beautiful conters, and scenarios are quite properly the
province of a boardgame.

> 1.  What is (in a nutshell) the main idea (premise) of the rules system?
Is it
> skill or class based?  Why would one like or dislike them? (kinda dumb
question,
> I know :)).

Not dumb questions at all ...

The best way to describe the game system is that it is task based.  A task
describes the die roll required to succeed an attempted action.  Tasks are
classified into a set of difficulty levels (Easy, Routine, Difficult,
Formidable, Impossible), each of which has its own target number (rolled on
a d20).  The referee or the scenario sets the difficulty in terms of the
level.  Modifiers may change the difficulty level - there are no die-roll
modifiers.

The target numbers are computed from the character's skill, an attribute,
and the difficulty level (which determines a multiplier).  In general,
these targets can be pre-computed, so that there isn't a delay to figure
out the target number when a roll is called for.

Character's attributes (STRength, DEXterity [so I'm a dinosaur - they call
it AGiLity now], ENDurance, INTelligence, EDUcation, and SOCial standing)
are generated randomly.  Characters gain skills through their education and
careers; generally selected by the player, with some random influences.
There is no "design" or "points" based character generation like that used
by some other game systems (such as GURPS and Champions).

The system is easy to explain to players, and isn't hard to use at all; it
has the advantage of simplicity.  However, I have a few strong dislikes.
The first is that attributes (generally STR, DEX, and to some degree INT and
EDU) have a great impact on the task target numbers.  This is because
attributes and skills contribute to the target number in equal proportion,
but attributes average around 6, while most characters have very few skill
levels that high.  The other thing I dislike is the relatively coarse
control over die roll - modifiers affect the task difficulty, so a +1
difficulty modifier represents a large change in the chance of success.

Problems with the combat system were generally mentioned above, however
I should also note that I personally found the combat rules needlessly
confusing - it's quite aparrent from reading them that the current rules
grew out of a much more compact rule-set that was repeatedly extended.
At the current state, it looks as if the rules have to remain the way they
are in order to maintain 'backward compatibility' with earlier versions
of the rules (such as the infantry weapon versus heavy weapon confusion
that has aparrently confused more than one first-time player).

> 3.  Hmm, I'll have to take a look at the Space sourcebook for GURPS.  I
don't
> exactly _love_ the system though.  

My biggest problem with it is that I'd much rather they used SI (metric)
units, instead of pounds, feet, and yards.

> Thanks for the info.  You helped me _LOT_.

You're welcome ...  :-)

wildstar@quark.qrc.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical 
                           competence on the part of the writer, he genuinely
                           believes it could happen." --- John W. Campell,
Jr.

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 289
***************************


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